The fact that the woman is so-called signifies that she had certain demand for Susanna

The genealogists all the contemplate it significant you to definitely Nicholas‘ wife Clementia try integrated right here because, around typical factors, she would not be said. When Susanna at the specific afterwards go out got off to an alternate protector, the fresh new spouse of that protector was not mentioned.

This will signify King John invested a while indeed there and you will the potential for an amorous liaison which have Clementia is obtainable

What follows the following is an idea state-of-the-art from the particular eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to declare that this new results is actually hotly contested!

It concept contributes to a delightful and curious ‘twist‘ regarding the story from Joanna, that could desire admirers off HBD!

On top, there would be absolutely nothing to suggest any partnership involving the hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and you may Clementia, partner out-of Nicholas de- Verdun. not, sensation of certain genealogists that have overseas hostages, including young ones, could have been which they were commonly set with nearest and dearest, if any was in fact offered.

Moving toward 1236, discover an entry throughout the Tewkesbury annals and therefore relates to Joanna’s mommy as the “Queen Clemencie!” It checks out partly:

Today, we know your mother out-of Joanna are called Clementia (Clemence?

In this case the newest monk is obviously indulging in the gothic legalism. Before their particular dying, kissbrides.com Recommended Site Joanna ended up being legitimised from the Pope. Based on one to legitimisation, the newest Tewksbury monk plainly got it abreast of himself to elevate Joanna’s mother on the updates out of King, because if their unique mom is King John’s wife! It is a fact yet not, one to King John and you may Clementia was in fact never partnered. From the discussing Joanna’s mom since the “Queen” Clementia, the monk which registered Joanna’s dying is actually proving their significant regard having Joanna, yet not wanting to replace the real things.

Are you aware that identity of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget means that she was the newest child out-of Roger de- Dauntsey, regarding Wiltshire. You to genealogist considers it significant one Clementia regarded from Wiltshire once the he has realized that Queen John had an effective attachment to you to definitely county, it being the house off his most trusted allies, the brand new Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have discovered your term ‘Clementia‘ are very unusual one of English noblewomen associated with period. In one single table out-of ladies‘ brands that has been amassed, there have been simply a couple of events of title “Clementia” from all in all, 1407 ladies in the fresh try! The truth that someone titled Clementia could well be in the Susanna is recognized as extreme.

Very! Evidence try suggestive, although not definitive, one within the 1228, Susanna, while the an excellent hostage, received off to the newest care of their particular maternal granny, today spouse regarding Nicholas de- Verdun!!

The Scottish genealogists of one’s MacDuffs‘ hold one Susanna ferch Llywelyn was born 1214 in Gwynnedd, Wales and you may passed away c. 1259 inside Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl from Fife in the 1230 along with a couple youngsters: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out of Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.

Without a doubt, discover restrict arguments to all or any which conjecture! King John had of numerous mistresses and perhaps up to seven illegitimate children. The caretaker away from Joanna would-have-been produced circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was given birth to circa 1191 (fourteen yrs . old during the time of their marriage so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, the brand new recognized legitimate child off Nicholas de Verdun with his partner Clementia was born circa 1210-1213. If Clementia are the mother away from Joanna, she’d are located in their unique late 30’s, early 40’s whenever pregnancy so you’re able to Rohese! Not impossible, particular say, but improbable.